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the tip of the spear for this kind of a

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blackout warfare attack would be

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cyber attack

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uh they would send

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they may already have logic bombs

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installed in the in in the scadas

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supervisory control and data acquisition

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systems

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uh these

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are little computers

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uh

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the size of a personal computer that run

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everything they control the way

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electricity flows into uh electric high

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and you could

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uh you could do a temporary blackout

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by damaging the controls

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you know that regulate the way

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electricity goes in through these logic

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bombs

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to freeze them up russia does that to

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ukraine every year around christmas now

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it's only a temporary blackout that they

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affect because you can eventually get

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control of the controls again you know

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if you if you defeat the uh the uh

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the bugs that they have inserted by by

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cyber attacks uh but you could

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permanently black out the state of

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florida or the whole country if you

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by going into the scada transformers

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uh by by going into the skaters

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change the way the electricity flows

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into this transformers the electricity

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has to go into the transformers the

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extra high voltage transformers in

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particular

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in a uh in the same way all the time and

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if you change that

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this transformer will eventually burn

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out

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you know and uh

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uh and so you could do that you could

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use the skaters to send to change the

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way the electricity flows into

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transformers this is just one example

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or you could change the way the

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generators spin that generate

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electricity or you could do all of these

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things the generators have to spin in a

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certain way all the time in order to

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generate electricity but you can change

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the way they spin by means of the scadas

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uh

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and and give them commands to spin and

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away so that they burn out their

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bearings and the generators are

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destroyed and sorry tell me what is a

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scada

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supervisory control and data acquisition

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system

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uh and it's basically there was a time

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when i was growing up you know back in

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the 60s

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uh

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our our grid was run and all of our

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utilities were run by blue collar

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technicians

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you had a guy

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you know sitting in a room watching the

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flow of electricity into a transformer

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or watching the flow of water or natural

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gas through a pipe and he would control

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that a human being was in the loop

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controlling that

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and uh

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but then with the microelectronics

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revolution in the 1970s

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we came up with little computers called

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scadas that could do the job of these

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blue collar technicians

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and the uh and they were replaced you

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know so the hundreds of thousands of uh

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of people that used to run our critical

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infrastructures were replaced with these

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systems

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the our electric grid and other other

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critical infrastructures in terms of

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national security back in those days you

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know people the utilities were able to

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save a lot of money by firing those

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those those employees and replacing them

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with uh with the skaters so you today

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you can run a whole city uh you know

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with a dozen people you know because of

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the introduction of scadas into our

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systems but if the skaters are destroyed

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or if they uh and if they destroy

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big important pieces of equipment like

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the generators that produce the

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electricity like the extra high voltage

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transformers which are are the

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foundations of our modern electronic

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civilization we cannot exist

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as an electronic civilization without

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these extra high voltage transformers uh

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they were

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invented by nikola tesla you know who

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invented the first uh electric grid he

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invented these transformers

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uh

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and they are to our civilization what

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roads and aqueducts were to classical

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roman civilization you know

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the uh

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uh when these things are destroyed uh

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it's very difficult to replace them uh

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they're extremely expensive they're the

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size of a house they weigh

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hundreds of tons there's only three

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whale railway cars in the whole country

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that can carry the weight road bridges

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have to be reinforced roads have to be

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widened in the aftermath of an attack

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that blacked out the whole country

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and blacked out all the other

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critical infrastructures like

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telecommunications

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you know you probably wouldn't be able

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to uh replace hundreds of transformers

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destroyed by a cyber attack or emp

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attack or by physical sabotage but to

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answer your question you know if russia

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delivered on its threat to blackout

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florida i think they'd probably do it by

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cyber warfare that's what their doctrine

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says

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if they were going to go after the whole

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country i don't think they'd rely just

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on cyber they'd throw the kitchen sink

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at us that's just common sense and they

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would probably insert they may already

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have inserted into our country teams of

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saboteurs

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who know where they have to go to to

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actually physically take out

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uh you know uh extra high voltage

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transformers and control centers that

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have housed skaters

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you know by by uh by means of

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rocket-propelled grenade launchers

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release drones carrying non-nuclear emp

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weapons that follow the power lines and

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would black out these transformers

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and then the ultimate

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thing the last thing and for taking out

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the whole country would probably be a

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nuclear emp attack

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so which countries do you think

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currently have the ability to take out

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uh us

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electrical power

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they could do it presently do do it

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tomorrow if they wanted to

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well it depends on what means we're

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talking about

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i i think uh uh you know a big

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sophisticated country

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uh would be necessary to do it just by

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cyber attack that would be russia and

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china

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uh

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anybody could do it

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using special forces even a terrorist

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group an on-state actor could do it by

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special forces the uh back in 2013

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mexico was attacked the mexican grid

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part of the mexican grid was blacked out

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by a

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drug cartel a terrorist drug cartel

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called the knights templars they put

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about a half a million people into the

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dark

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uh

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operations were their drug operations

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were located so they could go into the

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villages and towns

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uh and uh publicly execute leaders

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opposed to the drug trade

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now if neanderthals like the knights

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compliers know how to take down electric

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and electric grid they're just across

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the border you know a terrorist

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organization could pay these guys a 100

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million dollars to come across our

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border and do the same thing to our

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electorate right and take down the whole

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take down the whole country and by cyber

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attack you mean that is

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you're saying china russia both could do

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it via a cyber attack and that involves

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no

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they have uh they they could do it just

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by cyber alone

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but my book blackout warfare has got a

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chapter by a cyber expert

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edward roach dr edward roach who is a

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cyber security advisor for the united

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nations and he teaches at columbia

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university and his chapter describes how

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russia or china could take down the u.s

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electric grid just by cyber attack but

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we have all the computer computer

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hacking yes by computer hacking as was

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done against the colonial pipeline by by

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the russians uh

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just a couple of weeks after the uh uh

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after the threatened invasion of nato

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excuse me of ukraine in april of 2021 uh

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that's you may recall i was talking

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about how russia was threatening you

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know we could black you out selectively

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or

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attack the whole nation by cyber warfare

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and uh one of the things they did was

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the ransomware attack against the

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colonial pipeline

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you know

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this idea that this was done by

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russian hackers independent from the uh

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russian government is nonsense i mean

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russia russia is an authoritarian or

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totalitarian state these hackers work

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for the

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svr and the

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and the

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gru which is russian military

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intelligence

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uh

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they weren't interested in the money

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the ransomware attack the reason it was

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lifted is because

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the administration and the utilities

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that ran colonial pipeline and they're

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paying paying off the ransomware i think

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this was mainly done to demonstrate

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to the to washington

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uh that they could deliver on their

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cyber threats against this country uh it

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wasn't just inconvenience for people

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trying to get gasoline that colonial

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pipeline delivered about half i think it

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was 45 percent of all the petroleum

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to the eastern half of the united states

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our military our ability to project

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military power from the east coast

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military bases

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would have been paralyzed

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if they had done that

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you can use cyber to blow up a pipeline

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by the way it wouldn't have it wouldn't

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necessarily be a temporary shutdown of

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the pipeline

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you know

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attack on

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iran's

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nuclear program which was my

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understanding of cyber attack which took

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place what was it five to ten years ago

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oh this

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stuxnet worm

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right

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uh yeah that was uh

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a u.s israeli operation uh that should

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have been

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a black operation but president obama

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00:10:04,710 --> 00:10:02,480
couldn't resist talking about it to the

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new york times and so we know a lot